[size=1.45em][font=verdana]I have a question about Dividends. It relates to my previous question. Again it seems that trust in the issuer plays a giant role here. If we cannot completely trust the issuer, the value of the asset needs to be discounted.[/font][font=verdana] there a way to create trustless assets? There seems to be a way to put BTC into escrow and I assume the same for XCP. I might have missed this, but is there a way to designate an Asset as being backed by assets in escrow? That way, the purchaser of an asset would have the option of always just redeeming it for the amount in escrow. For things like pooled BTC (XCP) funds, it can be 100% backed by escrow and there would be no risk of default or funny business.If there was a way to put other cryptos in escrow, then a crypto fund could be setup, closed ended for sure, maybe even open ended and it could be composed of a variety of altcoins and BTC providing a diversified portfolio to reduce risk in this volatile market.Further risk could be removed (or income produced) by buying put options or selling call options. I am envisioning professionally managed crypto portfolio that doesn’t require trust![/font][/size]
[size=1.45em][font=verdana]Any chance of this anytime soon? Anytime at all?[/font][/size]
[size=1.45em][font=verdana]James[/font][/size]
Solving the trust(less) question on the XCP is probably the single biggest challenge of the platform and I don’t think there is any easy answer here.
any difficult answers?
[quote author=Jl777 link=topic=20.msg56#msg56 date=1391431120]
any difficult answers?
[/quote]
LOL It’s for the CounterParty dev team to answer and they do like their tough answers, good bunch of people here.
In my opinion it will have to be based on the reputation of the issuer potentially on and off the system and an multi sig escrow if possible . A system can be built where the issuer should be able to accumulate a score of sorts for each successful order executed, dividend paid out etc there by increasing trust in him. I can’t see how the asset transaction can be completely trustless.
[quote author=lonsharim link=topic=20.msg57#msg57 date=1391431883]
In my opinion it will have to be based on the reputation of the issuer potentially on and off the system
[/quote]
I don’t see anything wrong with this. People buy and sell ETFs all the time, many people do it without even reading a prospectus. Higher reputation issuer, will get the liquidity.
[quote author=aQuant link=topic=20.msg98#msg98 date=1391482086]
[quote author=lonsharim link=topic=20.msg57#msg57 date=1391431883]
In my opinion it will have to be based on the reputation of the issuer potentially on and off the system
[/quote]
I don’t see anything wrong with this. People buy and sell ETFs all the time, many people do it without even reading a prospectus. Higher reputation issuer, will get the liquidity.
[/quote]
I am not saying its wrong either. I am simply stating that it is not trustless which makes the system at best a replication of the real world without the centralization, a huge leap forward without doubt. A truly liberated idea is a trustless system but it seems a Utopian dream for now.
The one difference with the real world is the issue of regulation and the recourse that is available to a user on the normal world. I might invest in an ETF based on the fund house reputation or the fund manager’s without looking into the details, I however will have legal recourse in case the fund house does a runner or tried to defraud me or participates in ponzi schemes. What penalty does a rouge issuer face in the system? I don’t know yet. I am sure the devs have an idea on how best to mitigate risks within the system but I don’t know of it yet.
If we crack this puzzle I think we will have something special, something we can persevere with.
[quote author=aQuant link=topic=20.msg98#msg98 date=1391482086]
[quote author=lonsharim link=topic=20.msg57#msg57 date=1391431883]
In my opinion it will have to be based on the reputation of the issuer potentially on and off the system
[/quote]
I don’t see anything wrong with this. People buy and sell ETFs all the time, many people do it without even reading a prospectus. Higher reputation issuer, will get the liquidity.
[/quote]
Bitcoin fortunately offers a good reputation/authentication system - signing with the private key.
For ID verification though, it’s a bit more complicated:
1. ID / DD / Dox
2. PGP keys signed by a trusted identity
3. Previous dealings (the most important part)
IMHO something like a reputation system can and should live separate to the core protocol. The key to Counterparty is the trustlessness.
Now, if we are thinking about creating a (separate) distributed reputation/ratings system like Moody’s, I’m starting to get interested. So I’ll get the ball rolling. Just making it up off the top of my head so it’s a load of bollocks but anyway
1. Lets assume all interesting crypto currencies have a public and parseable blockchain.
2. Lets assume we can find a solution to the problem of having different blockchains and synchronisation parsing each one.
3. Based upon a however complex or simple set of rules someone will need to come up with, statistics upon certain adddresses within each block chain can be assigned. ie Some 1st generation blockchains will hold only info about spends, parsing counterparty transactions will yield more interesting information about actual transactions.
4. Enable entities/people to sign and ‘claim’ addresses on whatever blockchain.
5. Aggregate across blockchains to form some kind of trust score.
This end database would be big and costly to maintain, so let’s distribute this across many machines. Machines participating would be rewarded with the proceeds of the usage of the ratings database.
When we talk about legal recourse, then we start talking about real world regulation, or to get fancy a DAC which polices crypto currencies?
[quote author=lonsharim link=topic=20.msg57#msg57 date=1391431883]
[quote author=Jl777 link=topic=20.msg56#msg56 date=1391431120]
any difficult answers?
[/quote]
LOL It’s for the CounterParty dev team to answer and they do like their tough answers, good bunch of people here.
In my opinion it will have to be based on the reputation of the issuer potentially on and off the system and an multi sig escrow if possible . A system can be built where the issuer should be able to accumulate a score of sorts for each successful order executed, dividend paid out etc there by increasing trust in him. I can’t see how the asset transaction can be completely trustless.
[/quote]
What about solutions like:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_5:_Trading_across_chains
We already have XCP in escrow and BTCpay to complete the loop, so a simple solution can be to have LTCpay, DOGEpay, etc. Code to verify the respective blockchains and some other difficult but not impossible details and presto! Totally trustless decentralized crypto exchange for all crypto against XCP
I would love to be able to have something like this. It will suck up 10% or more of all volumes from all the centralized exchanges of BTC and everything else. Too bad it is so difficult
James