Some serious thought should be given to the next few steps of this projects PR.
[list]
[li][font=verdana]I have a very accomplished designer working on a homepage redesign that will be significantly better than what’s currently up.[/font][/li]
[li][font=verdana]cityglut [/font][font=verdana]is filling out the content on Counterparty.co.[/font][/li]
[li][font=verdana]We are very close to having a functioning GUI.[/font][/li]
[/list]My suggestion is for restraint.
I know we’re all eager to get some exposure and introduce people to this great project, however, serious thought should be given to getting actual conversions. This is a sensitive time for the Counterparty project. Do we want to have a bunch of potential users of Coinmarketcap land on the current Counterparty.co? My vote is very clearly that we do not. Lets wait 7-10 days and get the site looking as good as we can, then have XCP listed on Coinmarketcap and other exchanges.
Nothing extreme will happen occur between now and the middle of next week. However, if people see a more professional site and a coin that has a functioning GUI, they will be much more likely to invest. Counterparty is not ready for more exposure and to give it exposure at this time would be a disservice to the project.
You only get one chance for a first impression.
Also, my normal exchange I use to buy bitcoin is down so this transfer is gonna take a few days, gives me a chance to invest in some XCP before the price shoots up 
I am on you with this one. Everyone wants to rush it out to coinmarketcap or an exchange. Taking a mid-long term view its better to delay this until most of kinks have been worked out.
If it was a pump and dump scheme then yes, by all means rush it out but XCP has potential …
I actually don’t understand the motivation to get XCP listed on a centralised exchange at all. I know there’s a considerable bounty out there, and I’m sure the devs have their reasons. Is it a pre-requisite to being listed on coinmarketcap?
The coolest thing about counterparty is that it has a functional DEX. That’s totally awesome, and IMO should sell itself - when people install a nice shiny counterparty GUI and realise they can trade XCP/BTC directly from the safety of their wallet, it’ll blow their minds. They’ll get it. Or at least, in my imagination, they will (and a big lightbulb will appear over their heads, and a thought bubble containing the caption “WOAH”.)
To people who encounter XCP on a centralised exchange website, on the other hand, it’ll just be yet another of hundreds of little copycat altcoins. They’ll buy and sell it to speculate on the price rise/fall, just like they do with DOGE and all the other junk. But they won’t get it.
If you want people to understand that counterparty is different from everything they’re used to trading, it’d be best if their experience of it was different too. Why push centralised exchange, with all its associated problems (no shortage of examples in the Bitcoin world!), when this is exactly the problem that counterparty solves? Why not push the DEX? It’d be a slower ramp up in popularity, but far more solid in the long run. Eventually you get big enough that coinmarketcap are forced to include numbers from the DEX. People will ask “which site can I trade this on?”, and “dude, it doesn’t work that way; you just trade using the software itself” is an awesome answer.
My 2c. Of course, marketing is not my strong suit, so what I’ve written above may be completely misguided 
[quote author=gacrux link=topic=78.msg380#msg380 date=1392029563]
I actually don’t understand the motivation to get XCP listed on a centralised exchange at all. I know there’s a considerable bounty out there, and I’m sure the devs have their reasons. Is it a pre-requisite to being listed on coinmarketcap?
The coolest thing about counterparty is that it has a functional DEX. That’s totally awesome, and IMO should sell itself - when people install a nice shiny counterparty GUI and realise they can trade XCP/BTC directly from the safety of their wallet, it’ll blow their minds. They’ll get it. Or at least, in my imagination, they will (and a big lightbulb will appear over their heads, and a thought bubble containing the caption “WOAH”.)
To people who encounter XCP on a centralised exchange website, on the other hand, it’ll just be yet another of hundreds of little copycat altcoins. They’ll buy and sell it to speculate on the price rise/fall, just like they do with DOGE and all the other junk. But they won’t get it.
If you want people to understand that counterparty is different from everything they’re used to trading, it’d be best if their experience of it was different too. Why push centralised exchange, with all its associated problems (no shortage of examples in the Bitcoin world!), when this is exactly the problem that counterparty solves? Why not push the DEX? It’d be a slower ramp up in popularity, but far more solid in the long run. Eventually you get big enough that coinmarketcap are forced to include numbers from the DEX. People will ask “which site can I trade this on?”, and “dude, it doesn’t work that way; you just trade using the software itself” is an awesome answer.
My 2c. Of course, marketing is not my strong suit, so what I’ve written above may be completely misguided
[/quote]
The DEX at the moment though is not “troll” proof enough … And for mass adoption (and moon level prices :D) you will need a centralized exchange. There are quite a handful of buyers who are buying XCP even without the clients installed at the moment.
3 days and so many posts. By this rate, I won’t be able to keep up in a month…
[quote author=mtbitcoin link=topic=78.msg382#msg382 date=1392031891]
[quote author=gacrux link=topic=78.msg380#msg380 date=1392029563]
I actually don’t understand the motivation to get XCP listed on a centralised exchange at all. I know there’s a considerable bounty out there, and I’m sure the devs have their reasons. Is it a pre-requisite to being listed on coinmarketcap?
The coolest thing about counterparty is that it has a functional DEX. That’s totally awesome, and IMO should sell itself - when people install a nice shiny counterparty GUI and realise they can trade XCP/BTC directly from the safety of their wallet, it’ll blow their minds. They’ll get it. Or at least, in my imagination, they will (and a big lightbulb will appear over their heads, and a thought bubble containing the caption “WOAH”.)
To people who encounter XCP on a centralised exchange website, on the other hand, it’ll just be yet another of hundreds of little copycat altcoins. They’ll buy and sell it to speculate on the price rise/fall, just like they do with DOGE and all the other junk. But they won’t get it.
If you want people to understand that counterparty is different from everything they’re used to trading, it’d be best if their experience of it was different too. Why push centralised exchange, with all its associated problems (no shortage of examples in the Bitcoin world!), when this is exactly the problem that counterparty solves? Why not push the DEX? It’d be a slower ramp up in popularity, but far more solid in the long run. Eventually you get big enough that coinmarketcap are forced to include numbers from the DEX. People will ask “which site can I trade this on?”, and “dude, it doesn’t work that way; you just trade using the software itself” is an awesome answer.
My 2c. Of course, marketing is not my strong suit, so what I’ve written above may be completely misguided
[/quote]
The DEX at the moment though is not “troll” proof enough … And for mass adoption (and moon level prices 
) you will need a centralized exchange. There are quite a handful of buyers who are buying XCP even without the clients installed at the moment.
[/quote]
The thing that a centralized exchange would allow is better time resolution. DEX inherently operates on block-level resolution (in other words, each trade action takes at least 10 minutes, on average). To appeal to the trading/HFT crowd (whatever you think of them, they do bring liquidity), some sort of centralization is necessary. It’s one of the reasons btc-e and cryptsy are so successful, despite their problems.
[quote author=mtbitcoin link=topic=78.msg382#msg382 date=1392031891]
The DEX at the moment though is not “troll” proof enough …
[/quote]
Well it needs to be The DEX is either completely troll-proof or completely broken IMHO. Indeed, the concept of a DEX atop the bitcoin blockchain at all might be completely broken, if it proves impossible to make the DEX troll-proof.
FWIW I think it can be done, and I think it’s worth taking the time to do properly and only getting more people involved when they can jump on the DEX and have a good experience.
[quote author=mtbitcoin link=topic=78.msg382#msg382 date=1392031891]
And for mass adoption (and moon level prices ) you will need a centralized exchange. There are quite a handful of buyers who are buying XCP even without the clients installed at the moment.
[/quote]
That’s what I’m afraid of.
There are hoards of newbies out there who will buy every new pump-and-dump scamcoin they hear about. They definitely won’t install counterparty, or ever transfer XCP off the centralised exchange. They just want to speculate on bubbles. If you just want moon level prices (briefly) then you barely need bother to implement anything - you just need to do the bare minimum to get a listing on an exchange. You could do without the software entirely if the exchange would agree to list you without it.
If you want to see counterparty succeed in the long term then you need to attract people who are actually interested in using it.
[quote author=jimhsu link=topic=78.msg403#msg403 date=1392088608]
The thing that a centralized exchange would allow is better time resolution. DEX inherently operates on block-level resolution (in other words, each trade action takes at least 10 minutes, on average). To appeal to the trading/HFT crowd (whatever you think of them, they do bring liquidity), some sort of centralization is necessary. It’s one of the reasons btc-e and cryptsy are so successful, despite their problems.
[/quote]
Fair enough, I can see the argument there. Time resolution is indeed an inherent problem with building a DEX atop the blockchain. I personally think HFT is a serious bug with current trading platforms, and poor time resolution isn’t a deal breaker for your average investor/trader. But I can’t argue that availability on a centralised market wouldn’t bring extra liquidity to XCP. I can agree that it’d be helpful (and probably inevitable) in the long run. I just think that the DEX should be allowed to mature and attract a reputation for itself first.
While timing the push for investment is sensitive, this cannot be allowed to obscure the fact that market cap is what drives so much of the infrastructure and interest in a cryptocoin, and the landscape in this industry changes by the week. The luxury of biding time until blowing up on the market isn’t going to last long, and Bitcoin 2.0 investors are forgiving of initial implementation hiccups. At least Counterparty is already up and running. That is massive and cannot be overemphasized.
Too late.
Xcp just appears on coinmarketcap.
Is it possible that we get it removed? …
Having XCP on coinmarketcap this early will definitely be bad for Counterparty. Now the price has been inflated thousand percent in the last few hours by people buying and selling 10 and 20 XCP for ridiculous prices in a market fixing fraud.
This will ultimately lead to a small interest peak, then the dumpers get out and the price crashes to the bottom again and XCP will be tainted as yet another pump and dump scheme which will struggle to ever get back up.
This even happens to well established coins like MasterCoin.
I don’t know. If you factor in the true scarcity of XCP then it would seem to be adjusting to its true value. Also, what’s this you say about a market fixing fraud? It’s a free market, so I don’t really see how that’s possible.
[quote author=WhiskeyOcean link=topic=78.msg562#msg562 date=1392522961]
Having XCP on coinmarketcap this early will definitely be bad for Counterparty. Now the price has been inflated thousand percent in the last few hours by people buying and selling 10 and 20 XCP for ridiculous prices in a market fixing fraud.
This will ultimately lead to a small interest peak, then the dumpers get out and the price crashes to the bottom again and XCP will be tainted as yet another pump and dump scheme which will struggle to ever get back up.
This even happens to well established coins like MasterCoin.
[/quote]
People are also buying in the hundreds. it’s spiking up because a lot of people are finally noticing Counterparty. Also MasterCoin spiked up because of everything that they said they would do and decreased after the hype and the waiting of a product. Counterparty is different because of there functionality. I think it’ll do some good. companies will see the popularity and look into making there assets on Counterparty.
[quote author=CounterEvan link=topic=78.msg565#msg565 date=1392523761]
I don’t know. If you factor in the true scarcity of XCP then it would seem to be adjusting to its true value. Also, what’s this you say about a market fixing fraud? It’s a free market, so I don’t really see how that’s possible.
[/quote]
You honestly think that “free market” is some magic word ? If I agree to artifically lower the price with someone else (or create a fake account and do it by myself) that is still market manipulation.
I see quite a lot of potential in Counterparty, but as someone who has a ton of experience in this field I promise you, you do not want to be labelled as a “pump and dump”. Crypto 2.0 revolution started with NXT and now Ethereum, Counterparty, Skycoin and several more competitors are entering the scene. Above all you want to be seen a genuine.
If XCP blows up artificially (as it is now) then the result will be that someone will take the exact same scheme: Proof-of-Burn and capitalize on the publicity the Pump and Dump of XCP got.
Meaning you’ll have thousands of people flock to this PoB 2.0 and then that becomes the “real” Counterparty, while the original crash and burn. In the beginning nothing is better than to built a rigid infrastructure that noone can just copy and steal in the matter of weeks as can be done right now with XCP.
You drive away serious investors, because they have the brains to understand that the price is inflated. They don’t go on a panic buy when they see market manipulation, they instead cross XCP off it’s list. I have connections with most developers in this game and this happens way more than you think.
So the idea of not getting XCP listed yet was a great one.
[quote]You honestly think that “free market” is some magic word ? If I agree to artifically lower the price with someone else (or create a fake account and do it by myself) that is still market manipulation.[/quote]
Nah, not a magic word phrase, but rather an actual factor that, in the end, decides the price of XCP to a large degree. True, trying to artificially lower prices would count as attempted market manipulation, but uninhibited third parties (otherwise known as the free market) will buy up your cheap coins and over time return to market equilibrium.
[quote]You do not want to be labelled as a “pump and dump”[/quote]
True, but people we want to attract (smart investors) will investigate XCP not only based upon its current price fluctuations but also its fundamentals.
[quote]You drive away serious investors, because they have the brains to understand that the price is inflated. They don’t go on a panic buy when they see market manipulation, they instead cross XCP off it’s list. I have connections with most developers in this game and this happens way more than you think.[/quote]
If the price is inflated then it will inevitably deflate eventually. Serious investors don’t check prices only once and cross off stocks if they think they are currently overvalued.
[quote]So the idea of not getting XCP listed yet was a great one.[/quote]
It might have been optimal, but no use crying over an ounce of spilt milk when you own a dairy farm.
[quote author=WhiskeyOcean link=topic=78.msg567#msg567 date=1392527140]
[quote author=CounterEvan link=topic=78.msg565#msg565 date=1392523761]
I don’t know. If you factor in the true scarcity of XCP then it would seem to be adjusting to its true value. Also, what’s this you say about a market fixing fraud? It’s a free market, so I don’t really see how that’s possible.
[/quote]
You honestly think that “free market” is some magic word ? If I agree to artifically lower the price with someone else (or create a fake account and do it by myself) that is still market manipulation.
I see quite a lot of potential in Counterparty, but as someone who has a ton of experience in this field I promise you, you do not want to be labelled as a “pump and dump”. Crypto 2.0 revolution started with NXT and now Ethereum, Counterparty, Skycoin and several more competitors are entering the scene. Above all you want to be seen a genuine.
If XCP blows up artificially (as it is now) then the result will be that someone will take the exact same scheme: Proof-of-Burn and capitalize on the publicity the Pump and Dump of XCP got.
Meaning you’ll have thousands of people flock to this PoB 2.0 and then that becomes the “real” Counterparty, while the original crash and burn. In the beginning nothing is better than to built a rigid infrastructure that noone can just copy and steal in the matter of weeks as can be done right now with XCP.
You drive away serious investors, because they have the brains to understand that the price is inflated. They don’t go on a panic buy when they see market manipulation, they instead cross XCP off it’s list. I have connections with most developers in this game and this happens way more than you think.
So the idea of not getting XCP listed yet was a great one.
[/quote]
Just my opinion, but I think XCP has a lot of reasons to blow up. Working code, Working assets, working decentralized exchange, no founder baggage or funding drama, and several early use cases that I’m working with to build out initial company coins on counterparty, not the least of which is the LTB network coin that will be a bunch of firsts. I haven’t hidden the fact that I’m looking at many platforms and XCP is pretty much the pick at this point so I’m not suprised people are buying XCP, I’ve been talking about company coins with lots of people. I just published an article about kickstarter coins on techcrunch yesterday, lots of interest and XCP is the platform to build on at least for now.
What I said has already come to reality: the price has deflated quite a lot, but the problem is hasn’t gone back down to $1 where it’s supposed to be at the moment. Once something blows up falsely prematurely then it’ll take some time for the price to go back down and once it does people will panic because they have got used to the inflated price.
As I predicted the volume has also stagnated because the price had no reflection in reality. That insane price drove away a ton of potential buyers and now it’ll be hard to get them back.
Serious investors certainly pay attention over a longwhile, but once a crypto has been tainted it can be fatal. I am not saying that it will be, it depends on a lot of factors, but it was definitely a fuckedup launch for XCP. What needed to happen was XCP not being done in IPO until all the infrastructure was done.
I wish you all the best though, but don’t let short-term potential profits ruin the long term goal.
Who cares? XCP has to sell itself on the projects that people care about that will be built on top of it. People don’t want to overpay, and sellers don’t want to leave money on the table for something they dont know the price the market is willing to bear. This is how we learn that, the price will creep closer to reality and if it doesn’t that’s the market saying it doesn’t need to.
While things have not gone absolutely perfectly, other people would kill to have the problems Counterparty has. It’s hard to draw a comparison from Counterparty to other coins as no other coin has ever had a utility that is even close to XCP. We are in untested waters.
[quote author=Matt Y link=topic=78.msg615#msg615 date=1392617968]
While things have not gone absolutely perfectly, other people would kill to have the problems Counterparty has. It’s hard to draw a comparison from Counterparty to other coins as no other coin has ever had a utility that is even close to XCP. We are in untested waters.
[/quote]
You can make the argument that Counterparty is different, but the featureset is actually going to be fairly common in the next six months and already NXT has a working Asset Exchange, DEX and some fantastic, advanced guis that work right now. lots more competition in the wings too, so run fast!